‘How lucky was I?’: The Good Fight’s Christine Baranski on Sondheim, stardom and snobbery | Television

Christine Baranski is an “Oh, her …” form of actor. Informal observers won’t recognise her identify, however they all the time, immediately, know her face. “Oh, her,” they are saying, once they see her starring in The Good Battle, the profitable spin-off to the TV drama The Good Spouse, through which she additionally co-starred. “It’s the lady who performed Leonard’s mom on The Large Bang Idea and Meryl Streep’s high-kicking good friend in Mamma Mia!” “Oh, her,” they are saying, once they spot her in comedy basic Bowfinger. “It’s the lady who brings sass and class to no matter she’s in.” Precisely. That’s her.

Along with her high-toned enunciation and elegant bearing that verges on regal, Baranski looks as if the human embodiment of Manhattan’s Higher East Aspect circa 1955, and once we join through video name she initially fulfils all preconceptions. “Now, inform me about London, how are issues going there? Oh, I’m so sorry,” she says.

Her emphases and enunciations – “what” is “w-hat”, “attractive” is “gor-ge-ous” – make her a bit of paying homage to theatrical characters from bygone eras, reminiscent of these within the musical Mame and the ladies in Follies. Baranski has appeared in each of these exhibits as a result of, alongside her TV and film profession, she is a theatrical drive, as at residence in Broadway musicals as she is in TV dramas, and she has two Tony awards alongside her Emmy and SAG awards to show it.

At present, she is sitting in her elegant residence on, sure, Manhattan’s Higher East Aspect, embellished with costly wanting wall-hangings and stylish patterned curtains. The 69-year-old is wanting fairly costly and stylish herself, with a trim dancer’s determine that implies she’s probably not one for giant lunches.

Baranski as Diane Lockhart in The Good Battle. {Photograph}: CBS Photograph Archive/CBS/Getty Pictures

However she’s far hotter than her shiny exterior suggests, cooing delightedly once I apologise for the noise of my youngsters (“Oh, your infants!”) and fretting that she received’t give me adequate copy. In reality, she is a far cry from the well-born girl she seems to be like – and invariably performs.

“Even once I was finding out performing on the Juilliard, I was typically forged as the subtle greatest good friend with the witty line, and it’s so humorous to me as a result of I don’t come from a rich background. I’m from a blue-collar neighbourhood in Buffalo, New York, and for those who’re writing for the Guardian, you would say that’s like Manchester,” she provides helpfully (though I reckon Newcastle is a more in-depth English equal to Buffalo).

Baranski grew up “a latchkey child”, the daughter of a working mom who struggled to pay the payments after Baranski’s beloved father died when she was solely eight. Her grandparents had been Polish immigrants and she grew up in a Polish-American neighborhood. I inform her that I, too, am third-generation Polish and nobody in my household appears like her.

“You recognize, I keep in mind even in highschool folks would say: ‘You don’t sound like us, you sound English.’ I believe I made a decision early on that I wished to talk a sure approach, and it was a projection on my half. I wished to go to New York and be a theatre actress, and I’m dwelling my picture of the form of girl I wished to be,” she says.

Was she rebelling in opposition to her background? “It wasn’t a revolt, however by junior excessive [12 to 13 years old] it was clear to me I wasn’t going to remain in Buffalo. I was on fireplace as soon as I realised how empowered I felt on the stage.”

When she was a youngster, Baranski’s idol was Maggie Smith. Now, pleasingly, Baranski is enjoying what will be described as “the Maggie Smith position” in Julian Fellowes’ new HBO sequence, The Gilded Age, which might equally be referred to as “American Downton”. It’s set in New York, and within the Eighteen Eighties versus the warfare years. However in any other case, it’s obtained all of Fellowes’ hallmarks: bossy mistresses of the home, grumbling servants and fascinatingly weird snobberies.

As Agnes van Rijn in The Gilded Age.
As Agnes van Rijn in The Gilded Age. {Photograph}: Alison Cohen Rosa/HBO

Right here, the largest snob is Baranski’s character, Agnes van Rijn. She refuses to let her younger niece (Louisa Jacobson), who has simply arrived in New York, combine with any of the “new folks”, ie these whose ancestors arrived extra not too long ago than 200 years in the past. Baranski suits the position like a woman’s hand in a satin glove. “Does anybody write a snob higher than Julian Fellowes? That class of people that don’t even know what a weekend is,” she says, with relish.

Fellowes had Baranski in thoughts when he created the half as a result of years earlier, once they’d met at an trade occasion, she had instructed him she was a fan of Downton. She additionally talked about that her husband’s grandmother was the creator and heiress Elizabeth Drexel Lehr, “and Julian knew the Drexels nicely”, which is greater than I do (fast analysis reveals they had been an outdated American banking household).

Baranski had by no means been in a interval movie or TV present, however has finished loads of restoration comedies and Shakespeare on stage, “so I do know my approach round a corset and wig”. When Fellowes lastly completed writing The Gilded Age and got here knocking, Baranski had solely three phrases for him: “Sure, sure, sure.”

In addition to The Gilded Age, Baranski is the star of The Good Battle, which can quickly launch its sixth season. Between The Good Spouse and The Good Battle, she has performed the wildly adored liberal lawyer Diane Lockhart for 13 years. The hazard of doing something for therefore lengthy, she says, “is you run out of color, however we react to present occasions. We might be on till the ice caps soften.”

As careers go, it’s not dangerous for a girl on the verge of 70, who didn’t even begin performing on TV till her early 40s. “I can look again and suppose: ‘How typically did I not get a task as a result of I wasn’t fairly sufficient?’ However have a look at the place I’m in now – two nice roles, [my characters are] each No 1 on the decision sheet. I’m like: ‘Rattling! Late 60s and right here I’m.’ There may be progress!” she laughs.

With Julie Walters and Meryl Streep in Mamma Mia!, 2008.
With Julie Walters and Meryl Streep in Mamma Mia!, 2008. {Photograph}: Common Photos/Allstar

There may be progress, however there may be additionally Baranski, who has all the time felt extra like an exception than a rule. After graduating from the Juilliard, she received her first Tony in her second Broadway play, when she performed Charlotte in Tom Stoppard’s The Actual Factor, through which Cynthia Nixon – who now performs her sister in The Gilded Age – performed her daughter. Stephen Sondheim noticed her quickly after, and she not solely labored on most of his musicals, from Firm to Assassins, however she additionally turned his good friend.


“I was enjoying Mrs Lovett in Sweeney Todd in Washington, and Steve got here to see our first run-through, which occurred to be on my fiftieth birthday. Afterwards, I went out to a fish restaurant with my forged. Then, out of the blue, Steve turned up! He mentioned: ‘I by no means miss a fiftieth, and he drank glass after glass of wine, speaking about what it was wish to be a part of West Aspect Story. I assumed: ‘Who will get a birthday like this?’” she says.

Though Baranski has an residence in New York for work, her most important house is in Connecticut, and apparently she lives in a very thrilling nook of the state, on condition that her neighbours embrace Meryl Streep, Patti LuPone and – till his loss of life in November – Sondheim. “After Meryl and I did Into the Woods,” she says, referring to the 2014 movie adaptation of Sondheim’s musical, through which she performed Cinderella’s depraved stepmother and Streep starred because the witch, “I’d say to her: ‘Let’s get along with Steve!’ So I had the pleasure of some lengthy dinners with him.”

With Cybill Shepherd in Cybill, 1995.
With Cybill Shepherd in Cybill, 1995. {Photograph}: CBS Photograph Archive/CBS/Getty Pictures

Baranski met her husband, Matthew Cowles, who was additionally an actor, once they appeared in Ibsen’s Ghosts in 1982. He provided her a raise residence on his bike “and the remainder is historical past”, she says. They moved to Connecticut as a result of he inherited his household residence there, however elevating their two daughters on theatre actors’ wages wasn’t straightforward. So, when Baranski was provided a task on Cybill within the mid 90s, the cash was tempting, however the prospect of commuting to LA each week was not. The cash received. “It was a really anguished resolution. My women had been 5 and eight, I believe, and Matthew stayed residence with them. However once I learn the script by Chuck Lorre, this man I’d by no means heard of, and noticed how he’d written the character Maryanne, with the dry wit and martinis, I assumed: ‘Oh, I understand how to play this.’”

She did. The present was purported to be a star automobile for Cybill Shepherd, however Baranski immediately stole it, and on the finish of the primary season she received an Emmy. Shepherd didn’t. Lorre has since claimed that Shepherd was jealous of Baranski. Shepherd put it in another way in her memoir, Cybill Disobedience, insisting that the rationale she and Baranski didn’t get on was as a result of Baranski was unfriendly. Alicia Witt, who performed Shepherd’s daughter, later said that Shepherd “kinda mentioned some fairly imply issues about just about everybody she labored with, as I perceive”. The present ended after 4 seasons.

“I’ve by no means publicly gone into that,” says Baranski once I ask about Shepherd. “Sure, there have been points, however I want to take the upper floor and say, look, that present gave me a lot. I was high-quality working along with her. Politically, it did get troublesome, however I want her nicely.” And clearly she obtained on with Lorre higher than Shepherd did, on condition that he later put her in his world-dominating sitcom, The Large Bang Idea.

Even earlier than Cybill ended, Baranski was getting presents of roles in movies. One of many first she accepted was within the American remake of the French comedy basic, La Cage aux Folles, which was re-titled The Birdcage and directed by Mike Nichols, enjoying Robin Williams’ sort-of ex. Did she and Williams keep associates afterwards?

With Robin Williams in The Birdcage.
With Robin Williams in The Birdcage. {Photograph}: Frank Trapper/Corbis/Getty Pictures

“Not associates precisely – he was already an enormous star and I lived again east. However he did give me a gorgeous e-book on the finish of taking pictures, about [the theatre actor] Katharine Cornell, who was additionally from Buffalo. Anybody who knew him would say he had essentially the most extraordinary magnificence, a form of heat and sweetness …” she trails off fondly.

In The Birdcage, she has an particularly memorable scene through which she – on the planet’s tiniest miniskirt – and Williams dance, and I inform her it’s astonishing how she seems to be mainly the identical in that as she does in her dance scene in Mamma Mia!, regardless of the twenty years between the 2 movies.

“I discover it an expert obligation to remain in form. If we’re speaking lady speak, I do pilates, as a result of it retains me toned and sturdy. As an actor, you need to shield your instrument, so I wouldn’t smoke now as a result of it impacts the voice. You might have to have the ability to do no matter they want you to do, even after 14 hours of labor,” she says.

Baranski is, to make use of that very old style theatrical time period, a trouper. However on condition that we’re speaking lady speak, I say, was it ever onerous for her husband that she was a lot extra profitable than him? She considers her phrases rigorously earlier than answering.

With her husband Matthew Cowles, 2009.
Along with her husband Matthew Cowles, 2009. {Photograph}: Ben Hider/Getty Pictures

“All profitable ladies know this: you pay a worth for being the one who will get extra wattage. I keep in mind as soon as, on the crimson carpet, a photographer truly shouted at him: ‘Get out of the best way, you’re standing in her mild.’ Matthew was so gracious, saying: ‘In fact, after all.’ However I simply cringed inside, it was my Judy Garland second,” she says, referring to the scene in 1954’s A Star is Born, when James Mason is shoved apart by photographers to get a photograph of Garland.

“I believe each marriage is supremely difficult, however my late husband was enormously supportive and very pleased with me, and I believe we managed it fairly nicely. He was an distinctive individual.” She begins to recall a time when he inspired her to take a component when she was wavering, however out of the blue breaks off, crying. Cowles died in 2014.

We flip to extra cheerful topics, particularly, their daughters, Lily, who’s an actor, and Isabel, “who has given me three stunning grandsons. They. May. Not. Be. Cuter!” she says with emphasis, however the tears are nonetheless there. I apologise for citing painful recollections.

“Oh no, I’m completely satisfied to know that the love I’ve for him remains to be so actual. Too typically, we have a look at our lives and we’ve got regrets, and what makes good copy is folks bad-mouthing one another and speaking about how onerous it was. However I’m not that individual. I have a look at myself and I say: ‘How lucky was I?’”

The Gilded Age can be out there from 25 January on Sky Atlantic and streaming service NOW.

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